Ackis Recipe List

Are you sad that ARL will not be on WowMatrix?

  1. Choice:

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  • Avatar of Kelem Kelem May 23, 2009 at 20:19 UTC - 0 likes

    Because you smell like spring flowers?

  • Avatar of AesirRising AesirRising May 22, 2009 at 22:26 UTC - 0 likes

    Seven.

  • Avatar of Ackis Ackis May 22, 2009 at 22:05 UTC - 0 likes

    And why did 6 people call me a douche? :(

    BFAK:Ackis,90710388,2f62cbb4c100385c86df0c1418f5ac5a2cb1a2bc3f2a18f13291792dbb3a1480

  • Avatar of Ackis Ackis May 22, 2009 at 21:59 UTC - 0 likes

    I'm actually appreciating the frank discussion here without any trolling/etc.

    Regarding the curse client.  It's been rewritten, 3x now, with a fourth rewrite coming soon.  The problem with the first two rewrites were that it wasn't done by a WoW player.  The 3rd and 4th rewrite are being done by WoW players, and have taken a lot of input from authors/players/etc.  The original curse client was terrible.  It was shit.  The one that's out right now? Well it works hella good.

    As to why Curse and WoWInterface blocked WoWMatrix.  The primary reason was the amount of bandwidth that it used with no way to recoup costs for them.  There have been third party updaters in the past which haven't caused issues because they didn't use a lot of bandwidth... WoWMatrix got to the point where it was just too consuming to sustain.

    There are three major download sites, and I host ARL on two of them (Curse and WoWI).  They don't force me to do this, I'm not obligated to do this (other than through the friendships I've developed with their staff), or anything like that.  Both sites provide me a way to get my work out to users, and they both provide excellent development tools targeted at WoW Addon development.

    As for blocking WoWMatrix.  It took longer than you think.  You have two separate but large companies that were trying to find a unified solution that worked for both sites that would be difficult to break, but if it was broken, easy to break again.  I don't know all of the details because I don't work for either company, but I do know that the issue was discussed for a while and actually was done a few times but WoWMatrix circumvented the solutions in place.

  • Avatar of mysticalos mysticalos May 21, 2009 at 19:21 UTC - 0 likes

    My only issue with curse client that i always hated is simple, it does not have any optin to use svn or wowace updates unless you specifcly do it per file, but there is no global setting so i have to sit there and click 100 times to say "hey use this instead of this"...and 2, even though it can access curse and curseforge and wowace, i have several addons that are exclusive to wowinc or wow interface that it will simply ignore. An all in one solution like wowmatrix was nice, although I agree that wowmatrix practiced bad business and didn't properly go about things. For time being i'm having to do strenuous addon updating by checking 5 websites daily then manually downloading any addon updates from them and manually installing. I easily waste 30 min a day on addon updating. It's a shame really.

  • Avatar of redblade1530 redblade1530 May 19, 2009 at 21:59 UTC - 0 likes

    The reason that I originally switched to Wowmatrix from Curse downloader was because, interestingly, Wowmatrix had far more up to date addons than Curse did. The first day I used it I brought over half of my addons up to date that were not updating on Curse. My frustration with Curse is that they have addons that are six month old or older than I find updated elsewhere. Was Wowmatrix really violating anything? They eliminated dependancy on one site for addons and so that bothered Curse because Curse doesn't keep addons up to date. Wowmatrix was essentially a middleman that used the same sites authors upload to. The only thing they did superior than these sites was eliminate all the searching it takes to get a year old addon up to date and therefore was far more convenient to use and was far less intrusive than curse's wanna be downloader. Honestly maybe the authors might rethink Wowmatrix's role here because as of right now I am having to drop kick alot of addons I cannot find updates for again. Until today, I almost dropkicked the recipie list still might if they do not get the list updated for nerfed recipies like the one from the SUPPLYING THE FRONT quest.

  • Avatar of theye theye May 18, 2009 at 02:03 UTC - 0 likes

    @Ackis

    That is true, you do own the copyright to the files you have written, and as part of that you can control how they are distributed. What I meant by "Since Curse controlled access to its files..." is that Curse controls internet access to the files it hosts, not that they have the rights to those files. But yes, you have the right to choose who can distribute your files; if you didn't, we wouldn't be discussing this in the first place. :P

    I'm afraid I just can't believe that Curse was looking for a way to block WoWMatrix for so many months. Doing so is a fairly simple matter, no matter how small or large their development team is. But moving on to your other point, are you saying that the WoWMatrix incarnation that existed until recently was violating your copyright? Because, I'm not sure that's true. One could argue that it simply facilitated Curse's distribution. My understanding of copyright law is pretty basic, but I think this is more of a hairy issue than it may seem. You say it's the larger issue, but most complaints I've seen are all about bandwidth theft.

    I would see your point about the support issues if the new WoWMatrix had a comment system like the other sites, as it would be another site on which to support users, but currently it's more like an FTP server than anything else (or a version control system, depending on how advanced their backend is). So, I don't really see where you're coming from, but I haven't distributed any Addons I've written, so I'll take your word for it.

    And, I don't think I need to say anything more about the Curse Client, all the other posts here take care of that for me. Needless to say, your experience with it is much more positive than others.

    Finally, I'm not really trying to convince you to use WoWMatrix, I just think a discussion/debate of its merits is interesting. It's clear that you don't want to, and you have the right to make that choice. It won't personally inconvenience me much until every other Addon uses WoWMatrix but yours, which will likely never happen.

  • Avatar of Bandezar Bandezar May 08, 2009 at 22:51 UTC - 0 likes

    First things first, stealing is wrong (I didn't come up with this; first I heard of it was from this Jewish guy on a mountain about three millenia ago, and I think he got it from somewhere else).

    I don't think I've used WowMatrix more than a couple times, but I must confess that your Curse experience has been far superior to mine, so I wouldn't use their client if THEY paid ME. I don't even use their manual downloads if there's any possible alternative. That being said, I think you oughta put your stuff wherever it's best and most convenient for you. If you have a moral or ethical issue with a site and choose not to allow them to provide your files for download, GOOD FOR YOU! If more people thought about the ethical implications of their acts, perhaps (oh, perhaps) things would be better in the world. As for your add-on, I love it and appreciate your work. Keep it up

  • Avatar of Ackis Ackis May 08, 2009 at 17:12 UTC - 0 likes

    @theye: Wowmatrix never contacted authors asking to host files previously.  Curse does NOT control access to the files, the author does.  If I choose to, I can remove my files from Curse.  It's my choice who gets permission to distribute them.

    Your story about Curse allowing them to download is just that, a story.  From the get go Curse did not like wow matrix doing what they did and they had been looking for a solution for quite a while.  And the picture isn't just bandwidth theft.  It's copyright violations.  Which is a LARGER issue for us authors than the bandwidth.  Curse killed a few birds with one stone but blocking wow matrix.

    As for spending the extra few minutes to upload to another site.

    That extra few minutes turns into countless hours when you start dealing with support issues.

    And there is a reasonable alternative to Wowmatrix.  The Curse Client gets 99% of my addons for me, there are 2 that it does not get out of ~250.

  • Avatar of theye theye May 06, 2009 at 18:56 UTC - 0 likes

    There seems to be a lot of misinformation in this thread. The fact is, when WoWMatrix was created, there were two options: 1) host Addons themselves or 2) download Addons from Curse/others. Since Curse controlled access to its files, it ultimately had the final say. Curse's decision in the early days of WoWMatrix was that it preferred the small amount of extra bandwidth use to the possibility of another competitor in the UI scene, so it allowed WoWMatrix access. This continued to be the case until recently, when the bandwidth cost became large enough that it was no longer worth it to Curse, so they cut off access.

    Stealing bandwidth is generally wrong, but less so when the "victim" enables it to prevent the alternative. While you guys are painting a picture of a noble crusade against bandwidth theft, the reality was a simple cost-benefit analysis.

    But that was then, and this is now. Addon authors are now faced with their own two options, to upload their Addons to WoWMatrix or to ignore it. Personal issues aside, what it comes down to is authors spending an extra few minutes of their time to save their users a few minutes of theirs. Or, authors spending an extra few minutes to save a few hours in general. To some, this is worth it, to others, it isn't. (Note that this would largely be a moot point if there was a reasonable alternative to WoWMatrix, which currently there isn't.)

Facts

Posted on
Apr 20, 2009
Last updated
Apr 20, 2009
Voted on
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