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  • #7

  JackTripper Aug 19, 2011 at 02:32 UTC - 0 likes

  Hmmm, activity on this. i guess the least i can try is to code the math i came up with, and see what it does.

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  • #6

  kreioth Apr 01, 2011 at 18:42 UTC - 0 likes

  Hello,

  I'm trying to work through your math, and I think there is something which might not be 100% correct in the formula, but I could be mistaken.

  Given World of Logs doesn't track our absorbs from this buff, it's hard to tell what the exact numbers are.

  However I think the formula is the following.
  Using my tank http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/azjolnerub/morphian/advanced

  AP (full Vengence):  ~14000 in bear form in raid (~15000 at 100% - total ~29,000 AP)  Let's assume 80% average vengence on a boss.  So AP = 26000.

  Savage Defense:  26,000 * 35% = 9100 Bubble without Savage Defender
  Savage Defender: Bubble * (32% + (Mastery * 4%))

  So on Morph I have ~11 Mastery so the total in the ( )'s is 76%  ( which I can say is pretty close to my in-game tooltip showing the actualy %).

  So take 9100 inital bubble of S.Defense and  ADD the 76% of the original bubble from S.Defender, so you get  9100 * 1.76 = 16016 Total Bubble.

  This was the only point I wanted to clarify in the calculation. I believe this to be correct, however maybe someone else will chime in. From everything I've researched S.Defender is applied to the bubble from S.Defense.

  so instead of  AP * 35% * 32% * (Mastery * 4%)
  it's should be  (AP * 0.35%) + ((AP* 0.35 ) * ((32 + (Mastery * 4)) * 0.01))

  I hope that makes sense,
  Morphian

  Last edited Apr 01, 2011 by kreioth: final formula
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  • #5

  gsezz Mar 24, 2011 at 16:40 UTC - 0 likes

  Plugging in some numbers from a friend of mine (Deldignore!):
      * MissChance: 5% (base for everyone)
      * MobHit: 20,000 (TankPoints configurable value)
      * DodgeChance: 18.1%
      * CritRate: 25.71%
      * AttackPower: 650
      * Mastery: 11.88

  With THIS numbers, Mastery seems realy worthless. Cause they can`t be from a Bear. Perhaps from a Cat? And 650 AP musst be a misstake!

  My Feral has:
  160000 Life (with revenge you get up to 10% of your Life as AttakPower)
  DodgeChance: 33.6%
  CritRate: 33.11%
  AttakPower: 10030 totally unbuffed. And with Revenge up to 26000.
  Mastery 13.73

  So for me your math looks like this:
  SavageDefenderBlockReduction
  = (20000 - 16.55% *10000* 121.92% * 61,4%) / 20000
  = 93.8% -> 6.2% dmg avoid

  Or with full revenge:
  = (20000 - 16.55% *26000* 121.92% * 61,4%) / 20000
  = 83.9% -> 16,1% dmg avoid...surely not worthless.

  I think you`ve been on the roight way. You only had a confusing exaple.
  It would bee very nice to see Druid Mastery in Tankpoints.  ;)

  Last edited Mar 24, 2011 by gsezz
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  • #4

  JackTripper Mar 05, 2011 at 17:24 UTC - 0 likes

  "Mastery worthless for Bears"

  Average reduction of 0.5% ?

  Yes, mastery is worthless for bears.

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  • #3

  JackTripper Jan 07, 2011 at 04:54 UTC - 0 likes

  Savage Defense Passive
  Requires Bear Form
  Each time you deal a critical strike while in Bear Form, you have a 50% chance to gain Savage Defense, reducing the damage taken from the next physical attack that strikes you by 35% of your attack power.

  Savage Defender
  Requires Bear Form
  Increases the damage absorbed by your Savage Defense ability by 32%. Each point of Mastery increases the absorb by an additional 4%.

  Well i can see why Whitetooth's LibStatLogic doesn't include it - it's damn near impossible to define. It has to be modeled as an average % damage reduction.

  The variables are:

  • your crit chance
  • how often you swing
  • how often the enemy swings
  • your attack power

  i'll assume that you and the enemy have the same swing speed, that eliminates two variables.

  Assume you have a 30% melee crit chance: 30 swings in 100 will be crits.
  Only 50% of those will trigger Savage Defense.
  So 15 swings in 100 will trigger Savage Defense.

  The damage reduction of Savage Defense is 35% of attack power.
  Savage Defender increases that percentage by 32%. This means that the damage reduction could be either 67% (additive, 35%+32%=67%), or 46.2% (multiplicative, 35%*1.32=46.2%).

  i'll assume the absorption increase is additive: 67% of attack power. Each point of mastery increases the absorb by 4%:

  AbsorbEffect = 35% + 32% + Mastery*4%
  

  So it now begins to act like the old shield block value, meaning reducing an incoming attack by a fixed amount, rather than a percentage:

  SavageDefenderBlockValue = AttackPower * (35% + 32% + Mastery*4%)
  

  Adding in the fact that it only triggers after half your crits:

  SavageDefenderBlockValueAvg = 
        CritRate/2 * AttackPower * (35% + 32% + Mastery*4)
  

  Now this reduces damage taken from a hit by a fixed amount. We want to convert it to a fraction of an attack. This means we need to know a typical mob hit value:

  SavageDefenderBlockReduction = 
        (MobHit - SavageDefenderBlockValueAvg) / MobHit
  

  But Savage Defense only has any value if you're actually hit. If you're never hit (i.e. dodge+miss is over 100%), then Savage Defense has zero damage reduction. So we reduce it's effectiveness by your chance to be hit (100% chance to be hit = 100% usefulness; 0% chance to be hit = 0% usefulness; 75% chance to be hit = 75% usefulness):

  ChanceToBeHit = 100% - MissChance - DodgeChance
  

  giving

  SavageDefenderBlockReduction = 
        (MobHit - SavageDefenderBlockValueAvg*ChanceToBeHit) / MobHit
  

  Giving the massive formula:

  SavageDefenderBlockRedution = 
        (MobHit - 
               CritRate/2 
               * AttackPower
               * (35% + 32% + Mastery*4) 
               * (100% - MissChance - DodgeChance)
        ) 
        / MobHit
  

  Plugging in some numbers from a friend of mine (Deldignore!):

  • MissChance: 5% (base for everyone)
  • MobHit: 20,000 (TankPoints configurable value)
  • DodgeChance: 18.1%
  • CritRate: 25.71%
  • AttackPower: 650
  • Mastery: 11.88

  Plugging these sample values into the formula, gives an average reduction due to Savage Defense of:

  SavageDefenderBlockReduction 
        = (20000 - 12.855% * 650 * 144.52% * 76.9%) / 20000
        = (20000 - 120.76*76.9%) / 20000
        = (20000 - 92.86) / 20000
        = (19907) / 20000
        = 99.5%
  

  All incoming attacks are reduced to 99.5% of their original value?

  This value is obviously way too low: an average damage reduction of 0.5%?

  So someone is free to come up with some alternate math; i'm not going to spend time coding up logic that is completely wrong.

  Unless of course Savage Defense effect is counted after armor reduction:

  • ArmorReduction: 29.03%

  This means that the average landing attack will be 14,194 rather than 20,000:

  SavageDefenderBlockReduction 
        = (14194 - 12.855% * 650 * 144.52% * 76.9%) / 14194
        = (14194 - 120.76*76.9%) / 14194
        = (14194 - 92.86) / 14194
        = (14101) / 14194
        = 99.3%
  

  ...which is still a lousy value. So i'll wait for someone else to analyze it.

  Last edited Jan 07, 2011 by JackTripper
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  • #2

  midnightlynx Jan 06, 2011 at 07:21 UTC - 0 likes

  As in, the addon rates mastery as worth 0.

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  • #1

  JackTripper Dec 27, 2010 at 17:12 UTC - 0 likes

  Worthless as in....Feral Druids in bear form get no effect from mastery in the game? Or worthless as in mastery grants some effect, but the addon isn't taking it into effect?